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What bullet grain weight to use....

11K views 25 replies 7 participants last post by  SkipD 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I know this question has probably been asked a lot but, please help me decide on which is better, more feasible, shoots better/worse between light and heavy.

I've shot 115 grain target rounds and 147 grain hollow points and couldn't few much difference. I know those have their preference towards light and fast and slow and heavy, but I can't make up my mind between the two. Who knows, maybe I never will.

Just looking at why y'all choose what you choose.


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#2 ·
What is most reliable in the gun and what do you shoot best? Anything else is just asking for trouble.

Questions like this results in heated arguments in the LGS and barbershops across this great land.,
 
#3 ·
What is most reliable in the gun and what do you shoot best? Anything else is just asking for trouble.
If I knew this information I wouldn't have posted the topic. I'm just looking for opinions and why everyone uses what they use.

Questions like this results in heated arguments in the LGS and barbershops across this great land.,
Your point?



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#4 ·
I agree with bberg100.
I use different wt in different guns In my LCP I have 95gr Critical Defense. In my larger G19 I have 115gr CD. Some can handle the recoil of a heavier wt. and easily recover for a second shot. 95gr in an LCP may be all that someone with smaller hands or arthritis can handle. So that's what it is.
For me
For me, accuracy and being able to recover fast for a 2nd or 3rd shot are very important in a SD situation.
 
#5 ·
I agree with bberg100.
In a way I do too but I'm not looking for a battle of opinions simply because what works for one person isn't necessarily gonna work for another person. I realize it's all about personal preference, I'm just simply asking for info about why some choose what and why some choose the other.
I use different wt in different guns In my LCP I have 95gr Critical Defense. In my larger G19 I have 115gr CD. Some can handle the recoil of a heavier wt. and easily recover for a second shot. 95gr in an LCP may be all that someone with smaller hands or arthritis can handle. So that's what it is.
For me
For me, accuracy and being able to recover fast for a 2nd or 3rd shot are very important in a SD situation.
So in other words, what you're saying is, depending on hand size, strength and possible arthritis, being able to handle more or less a certain amount of recoil depending on the size of pistol is what would base what grain bullet one would use?

As of now, recoil isn't really an issue. Even with this smaller LC9s. My target shot placement was roughly the same whether I was shooting 115 grain loads or 147 grain loads.

I guess what I probably should have asked was what would be better for home defense? I know some say a slower bullet with more energy is better and some say the opposite that faster bullets with more velocity is better.

In my limited experience I think a billet is a bullet that's fired from a gun but with the more advanced technology, does that still hold the same? Does a faster, lighter projectile do more damage than a slower, heavier projectile?



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#6 · (Edited)
As I originally stated: What is most reliable in YOUR gun and what do YOU shoot the best.

The first thing is the most reliable round in YOUR gun. Two Ruger LC9s may behave differently with the SAME load. If it is not reliable in YOUR gun with YOU shooting it then your gun just became a paperweight. Then you must be able to handle the round in YOUR gun. If YOU can't accurately & repeatedly shoot the "greatest defensive round ever" in YOUR gun then you are hoping the bad guy happens to step into your bullet. I have experienced two folks shooting the same gun, same load with different results.

As to bullet weight and speed, it has caused more contentious arguments than who is the best pitcher of all time. Everyone has an opinion. If there was a hard and fast fact based rule about it there would not be acres of 9mm ammo shelf space in your LGS. Everyone would use 115 grains at 1250 FPS, or is it 147 grains at 1123 FPS, and it would definitely be a Hornady XTP, or Gold Dot... Ballistic tests continually prove any ammo is better than the competition.

Keep in mind until recently the 22 LR killed more people in the USA than any other round. Shoot what works for YOU and don't worry about what everyone else does.
 
#7 ·
As I originally stated: What is most reliable in YOUR gun and what do YOU shoot the best.

The first thing is the most reliable round in YOUR gun.
I haven't shot a lot but so far everything I have shot has been reliable, even in my Beretta Storm that I have, with the exception of the 60 grain Liberty Ammunition Civil Defense rounds in the Beretta which is 40 S&W.

Two Ruger LC9s may behave differently with the SAME load. If it is not reliable in YOUR gun with YOU shooting it then your gun just became a paperweight. Then you must be able to handle the round in YOUR gun. If YOU can't accurately & repeatedly shoot the "greatest defensive round ever" in YOUR gun then you are hoping the bad guy happens to step into your bullet. I have experienced two folks shooting the same gun, same load with different results.
As far as two LC9s pistols reacting differently to different rounds, I would think there would have to be an issue with one or the other to have different results because they're supposed to be built to exact specs. I would think, anyways. I don't know the first thing about gun manufacturing even in mass-produced guns, which is what I would guess.

As to bullet weight and speed, it has caused more contentious arguments than who is the best pitcher of all time.
That's probably because the majority of people that have argued that think that their opinion is fact and trumps everyone else's. That's not what I'm looking for and I would hope that this discussion doesn't go there. As I said in my opening post, I just want to know what people use and why so I can take that information and base what I choose from that.
Everyone has an opinion.
You're right, and I'm curious to hear what everyone's is. Again that's the reason for the thread.

If there was a hard and fast fact based rule about it there would not be acres of 9mm ammo shelf space in your LGS. Everyone would use 115 grains at 1250 FPS, or is it 147 grains at 1123 FPS, and it would definitely be a Hornady XTP, or Gold Dot...
There's not and there's never going to be. There is far too much out there to make an absolute best. That's not what I'm looking for. Again, I just wanna know what everyone uses and why they use it. Simple as that.

Ballistic tests continually prove any ammo is better than the competition.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not so sold on ballistics gel tests.

Keep in mind until recently the 22 LR killed more people in the USA than any other round.
A 22LR is a very unique round, though. They can ricochet in the body from entering the right spot which where their most damage comes from.

Just because a 22 can be a lethal little round, that doesn't make it ideal over the majority of the defense rounds on the market.

Shoot what works for YOU and don't worry about what everyone else does.
I intend to. But on the contrary, I'm not worried about what everyone shoots. I am just simply curious what they shoot and why.



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#8 ·
I know this question has probably been asked a lot but, please help me decide on which is better, more feasible, shoots better/worse between light and heavy.

I've shot 115 grain target rounds and 147 grain hollow points and couldn't few much difference. I know those have their preference towards light and fast and slow and heavy, but I can't make up my mind between the two. Who knows, maybe I never will.
Most rounds that meet the same SAAMI specification (all standard pressure rounds, for example, as opposed to standard vs "+P" will feel about the same from the shooter's point of view.

There's no real way to determine which bullet weight or design is "better" unless you run tests for a specific purpose. The specific purpose(s) to be tested could be things like 1) how tightly the shots hold a group at a specific range, or 2) how the bullets affect a live target (as in for self-defense), or 3) how much muzzle blast and/or flash there is when firing a round, or 4) how "dirty" a particular round is when fired from a specific firearm, etc.

There are many variables in terminal performance beyond the weight of the bullet being used. The shape of the bullet, the construction of the bullet, and other variables all come into play.
 
#12 ·
Something additional - in this thread, you have not even addressed what caliber you are interested in and what firearm(s) you are interested about using the cartridge(s) in. Answers to these questions will help to narrow the potentially extremely wide range of answers you could get for your discussion.
 
#14 ·
There are probably thousands of posts on the internet about the subject of what bullets perform better than others for each of many calibers. In order to really get the best feedback for your situation, it might be good to define how you would expect to use the chosen bullet(s). For example:


  • Are you looking to defend your home and/or defending yourself in a variety of locations outside the home?
  • Would you expect someone who you would want to defend against to be dressed in a heavy coat during the colder months or is lighter clothing the norm year-round?
  • If you're thinking of defending your home, what are the spaces like? Are the rooms small or very large? How are the walls built (considering projectiles possibly passing through a wall or walls and putting family members at risk as a result, or even having projectiles bouncing off very hard walls, etc.)?
  • What sort of contact distances with a "bad guy" would you expect where you might be?
  • Are you limiting your firearm(s) consideration to the LC9 (9mm and very short barrel and prohibiting use of "+P" ammunition)?
  • Are there other situations can you think of that might require a somewhat special choice of bullet types for you to use?
 
#15 ·
There are probably thousands of posts on the internet about the subject of what bullets perform better than others for each of many calibers. In order to really get the best feedback for your situation, it might be good to define how you would expect to use the chosen bullet(s). For example:


Are you looking to defend your home and/or defending yourself in a variety of locations outside the home?
Yes.
Would you expect someone who you would want to defend against to be dressed in a heavy coat during the colder months or is lighter clothing the norm year-round?
Both.
If you're thinking of defending your home, what are the spaces like? Are the rooms small or very large? How are the walls built (considering projectiles possibly passing through a wall or walls and putting family members at risk as a result, or even having projectiles bouncing off very hard walls, etc.)?
Yes and, it's a fairly average small house that's old. Don't really have to worry so much about barrier protection for other room occupants but, I don't think I want my bullets to go through the assailant and ending up in either of the two vehicles outside.

I'm not going to be using full metal jacket range ammo for home or personal defense, not even them silver, (can't think of the name of them) range ammo-looking personal defense rounds, I'm going to use actual hollow points. Right now the Ruger is loaded with 147g Federal Premium HST personal defense rounds that have been FBI approved.

What sort of contact distances with a "bad guy" would you expect where you might be?
Prolly no more than 5 feet unless an intruder breaks in the house in the middle of the night, then he's gonna be staring down the barrel of my 40 caliber Beretta that has a lot more rounds.
Are you limiting your firearm(s) consideration to the LC9 (9mm and very short barrel and prohibiting use of "+P" ammunition)?
Yes because Ruger recommends against +P ammunition usage in the LC9s.
Are there other situations can you think of that might require a somewhat special choice of bullet types for you to use?
No, don't think so.

My question is just primarily why do some people prefer lighter, faster bullets over slower, heavier bullets and why.

As far as what the LC9s likes grain-wise to preventing FTE and FTL, that's another question. I know some guns don't like lightweight ammo. My Beretta Storm for example has liked almost everything I've shot out of it except some 60 grain ammo. I had a FTL when doing a rapid fire test. After the 6th round, the empty shell casing didn't come out.


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#19 ·
Have you tried anything super-light? I'm not saying my Ruger would have the same results as my Beretta 40 did with 60 grain rounds but, I just don't want to burn through a bunch of ammo and money finding out if something on the extreme light side will be reliable. But, if there is a valid argument that lightning fast rounds proves more effective then I may have to consider it.


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#20 ·
The more I learn about the Polycase Interceptor / Ruger ARX, the more intrigued I am. Grabbed a box for the LCP, haven't made it to the range yet. They are the epitome of fast & light. Awesome wound channels, but the rep didn't know if the displayed tests had any clothing etc. I am still a believer in tried and true. Gonna take a lot of convincing for me to carry them versus the Hornady CD that has been proven to work the majority of the time.

@corneileous I really didn't mean to irk you, I spend all day behind the counter at a LGS answering the same questions. I "love" customers that "must" buy an autoloader, but can't rack the slide, they do everything but call me an idiot when they buy it. It soon comes back in trade for a revolver. Same with ammo. All I can say is try what intrigues you. 90% of ammo will function flawlessly in 90% of the guns for 90% of the shooters. For your LC9 I would carry the Hornady CD 115g, or the Federal HydroShock 124g. They are customer favorites and you rarely hear/read about a failure. There is not an ammo 100% effective all the time. Clothing - bulk, material, etc., hitting a clothing rivet or cell phone or belt buckle or ... Build a relationship with the folks at your LGS, even if it is a big Cabela's or such. They generally are truly interested in giving you good advice, and you can read real quick if they are shining you on. Most of the folks on this forum are likewise going to give you their honest opinion, sometimes not what you wanted or expected. Honestly your opening statement sounded to me like "tell me the best ammo for my gun" thus the wandering through the barbershop.

PS - For my Springfield EMP 9mm, I carry the Winchester Ranger 127g +P+ the department issued before I retired. It functions flawlessly in my gun. It will destroy a gun in short order with regular use, I run reloaded 124 ball for practice & plinking.
 
#21 · (Edited)
The more I learn about the Polycase Interceptor / Ruger ARX, the more intrigued I am. Grabbed a box for the LCP, haven't made it to the range yet. They are the epitome of fast & light. Awesome wound channels, but the rep didn't know if the displayed tests had any clothing etc. I am still a believer in tried and true. Gonna take a lot of convincing for me to carry them versus the Hornady CD that has been proven to work the majority of the time.
Is that the anmo that has a bullet that resembles a Phillips head bit? If so, that just reminds me too much of those Federal Gaurd Dogs.

I dunno, those that you mentioned, and these, might be good, I just think for personal defense, a tried and true hollow point is the way to go. Maybe I'm wrong.
@corneileous I really didn't mean to irk you...
You didn't, I just didn't want this thread to go in that direction where everyone starts saying their choice is the best...lol.
All I can say is try what intrigues you. 90% of ammo will function flawlessly in 90% of the guns for 90% of the shooters.For your LC9 I would carry the Hornady CD 115g, or the Federal HydroShock 124g. They are customer favorites and you rarely hear/read about a failure. There is not an ammo 100% effective all the time. Clothing - bulk, material, etc., hitting a clothing rivet or cell phone or belt buckle or ... Build a relationship with the folks at your LGS, even if it is a big Cabela's or such. They generally are truly interested in giving you good advice, and you can read real quick if they are shining you on. Most of the folks on this forum are likewise going to give you their honest opinion, sometimes not what you wanted or expected. Honestly your opening statement sounded to me like "tell me the best ammo for my gun" thus the wandering through the barbershop.
I apologize for making it appear that way.

I think I'll be pretty happy with the Federal HST.

My only concern is just the bullet weight issue.


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#22 · (Edited)
One bullet type that should get serious consideration for defensive use is the Barnes all-copper hollowpoint bullet. This type is one that's used by the folks at Cor-Bon and they call it their DPX bullet. For their 9mm Luger standard-pressure load (as opposed to the high-pressure "+P" load), they use a 95gr. bullet and rate the load at 1300FPS from a 3=1/2" test barrel. This load has gotten some seriously good reports when tested on animal cadavers. I use Cor-Bon DPX loads in my LCP (.380 ACP) and my Glock 19 (9mm).

Click on this link for Cor-Bon's web page on their DPX loads.
 
#23 ·
I may test and look at the reviews for the Federal Premium 150gr HST @900fps. Right on the box there is a pistol shape and the word Micro under it. Depending on the powder they use this could be a soft shooter.
https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/bullet/hst/personal-defense-hst/p9hst5s
In my experience a heavy bullet has more knock down power. When I first started shooting IDPA competition my weapon was a SR9c and I was using cheap Winchester and Federal 115 grain rounds. They would only knock down a steel pepper popper target if I hit it at the very top. I tried a stage with another shooters 147gr reloads and the poppers fell know matter where the hits were. Most .380 rounds just bounce off the poppers unless we tune them for light rounds then the wind will blow them over a lot.
I now reload 147gr foe IDPA with a fast powder @890fps and the recoil is light and they knock down anything.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pep...oJrQAhUS3mMKHavtDxMQ_AUICSgC&biw=1366&bih=635

Whatever you pick for carry, make sure they are accurate in your weapon! Shoot some 20-25 yard groups from a rest. This will also show if your sights are off. If need be have another shooter give it a try with your weapon. Denny
 
#26 ·
Well, here's another one.. What about gun wear between light and heavy?
In my opinion, things like the very minor differences (if there are any) in gun (barrel) wear are totally insignificant. What matters for a self-defense weapon is simply the terminal performance to be able to stop aggressive action of a "bad guy".

The round that knocks over an inanimate target (such a the steel targets talked about above) better may or may not cause more internal damage that can result in stopping the aggression faster.

Terminal performance coupled with a firearm that can be adequately controlled by the shooter under a variety of conditions is what concerns me for a self-defense package.
 
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