Realistic range time w/Elsie? - Page 2

Realistic range time w/Elsie?

This is a discussion on Realistic range time w/Elsie? within the General LCP Discussion forums, part of the LCP Pocket category; Originally Posted by seery I've always heard it as "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast". But as a competitive shooter since 1987, my opinion ...

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  1. #11 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by seery View Post
    I've always heard it as "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast".

    But as a competitive shooter since 1987, my opinion has always been that slow is slow and fast is fast!
    Then as a competitive shooter you would agree it does not matter how fast you are if you don't hit.
    I think the smooth being fast thing comes from getting the gun back on target with a smooth trigger squeeze.
    Last edited by mr.mike1407; 05-15-2017 at 09:17 AM.
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  2. #12 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny4kids View Post
    Realistic range time w/Elsie? In my view if you shoot at a range with rules you can not have realistic range time w/elsie. 1 second between shots? smooth is fast? how do you know fast? 5 to 7 yards? why is that? Please don't fool yourselves! What if the shot is 1 foot? I'm ready...You? I could go on and on how range shooters are fooling themselves! I was one of them! Denny4kids!
    Thats great, then what would you recommend for city folks that only have access to a indoor range ?
    I don't think that recommending 5 to 7 yards would mean to only do that. At least that is the way I took it, I think the point was not to start by trying bullseyes at 15 to 25.
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  3. #13 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.mike1407 View Post
    Thats great, then what would you recommend for city folks that only have access to a indoor range ?
    I don't think that recommending 5 to 7 yards would mean to only do that. At least that is the way I took it, I think the point was not to start by trying bullseyes at 15 to 25.
    You must use your imagination. For example, your first shot on a threat is important so why not practice that. Lower the weapon between shots. Look at the target, bring the weapon up and shoot. You can change that also by lowering the weapon to the right or left and change your stance. If you can put up multiple plates have a buddy call which plate to shoot. Den
    mr.mike1407 and Joenaper like this.
    "We do not rise to our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" Archilocus, Greek Soldier, Poet, 650 B.C.
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  5. #14 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtkfish View Post
    Nothing beats first shot placement and nothing ends a gunfight faster than first shot placement. Quick drills at 3 and 7 yards without using sights are the way to go. A pie plate is an excellent way to go, forget about shot groups. Also, DO NOT USE YOUR SIGHTS, because you are not target shooting. Looking for sights is looking to die. I would go so far as to not even worry about reloading, because if you have first shot critical placement, you are the winner! There is no second place prize in a gunfight.

    These are the points that I drum home to all my defensive carry students.
    Thanks! I mostly do this now. I probably spend about 2/3 of my carry pistol range time point shooting one handed. One thing I haven't spent much time on is one handed with weak hand. That's kind of my next frontier.


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  6. #15 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny4kids View Post
    You must use your imagination. For example, your first shot on a threat is important so why not practice that. Lower the weapon between shots. Look at the target, bring the weapon up and shoot. You can change that also by lowering the weapon to the right or left and change your stance. If you can put up multiple plates have a buddy call which plate to shoot. Den
    Denny, I like having multiple targets. That's been a staple for me when I can shoot outdoors. Unfortunately, cross lane shooting would probably get me banned from any of the indoor ranges I frequent. Pretty much the same for lowering the pistol. Anything that moves the muzzle anywhere other than straight down range understandably causes problems. Private outdoor shooting is so much better.


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  7. #16 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Denny: That's why I qualified what I posted, not trying to fool anyone but I guess there's always someone who will find fault. I am a gunfight survivor and understand better than most what is realistic and what is not. I'm only trying to help others who may be locked into the paper bullseye shooting thing, and was curious about what others may be doing.
    Last edited by Splinter; 05-15-2017 at 02:48 PM.
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  8. #17 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    Denny: That's why I qualified what I posted, not trying to fool anyone but I guess there's always someone who will find fault. I am a gunfight survivor and understand better than most what is realistic and what is not. I'm only trying to help others who may be locked into the paper bullseye shooting thing, and was curious about what others may be doing.
    Why not ? I don't think anyone would be offended, there are many new shooters out there & all they know to do, the best they know to do is go to a range & shoot paper.
    I would also like to hear how you survived, what you did to survive that gunfight.
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  9. #18 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny4kids View Post
    You must use your imagination. For example, your first shot on a threat is important so why not practice that. Lower the weapon between shots. Look at the target, bring the weapon up and shoot. You can change that also by lowering the weapon to the right or left and change your stance. If you can put up multiple plates have a buddy call which plate to shoot. Den
    I think I covered some of this in my first post, as Joenaper said range officers don't like to see guns pointed anywhere but down range & I totally agree with them, I don't know the shooter next to me most of the time.
    I do try to place shots torso head torso head, other than that you can get targets with 4 I guess about 9 in. bullseyes on it.
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  10. #19 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtkfish View Post
    Nothing beats first shot placement and nothing ends a gunfight faster than first shot placement. Quick drills at 3 and 7 yards without using sights are the way to go. A pie plate is an excellent way to go, forget about shot groups. Also, DO NOT USE YOUR SIGHTS, because you are not target shooting. Looking for sights is looking to die. I would go so far as to not even worry about reloading, because if you have first shot critical placement, you are the winner! There is no second place prize in a gunfight.

    These are the points that I drum home to all my defensive carry students.
    Where do you teach? I'm in IL. I'm very serious about getting more advanced defensive skills training.


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  11. #20 Re: Realistic range time w/Elsie? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joenaper View Post
    Where do you teach? I'm in IL. I'm very serious about getting more advanced defensive skills training.


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    Training is always good. I teach in the lower New York area. I'm a retired SWAT team commander and certified Municipal Police Firearms Instructor. If you look at my past posts, you will see that I do not ever recommend using sights in a pocket pistol, that is why I could care less about the sights on the LCP.(or the long trigger pull). The LCP is a last ditch defensive pocket pistol......nothing more.(and a good one at that!) If someone is itching for a gunfight(lol) or think you could be in a possibly dangerous area or situation, then carry a bigger gun/caliber (personally, I prefer the Glock 26 or a J frame S/W .38 lightweight Bodygaurd) That being said, in warm weather the LCP is always in my pocket as EDC.

    A little tip for practice.....save your empty pizza boxes(no kidding). They make excellent targets for quick fire, no sights practice. You can get two targets from the box(top and bottom. Just cut away the seam folds and you have a nice little target. I suggest only practicing from 7 yards in, two hand point shoulder and strong hand only. With pocket pistols, I do not believe weak hand practice is necessary and can lead to excessive "limp wristing". The overwhelming number of self defense gun discharges are within 7 yards for Police and inside 3 yard for civilians. The average number of shots for police is 3 and for civilians 2. That is why I believe practicing reloading is not necessary. Most of the time, the sound of a gunshot gets the bad guy running!
    Also, practice dry firing in front of a mirror. Please, make sure there is no ammo in the vicinity and the weapon is triple checked for being empty and safe.
    I hope this helps a bit.
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