CAUTION: Magtech +P .Guardian Gold 380 Ammo - LCP Barrel burst

This is a discussion on CAUTION: Magtech +P .Guardian Gold 380 Ammo - LCP Barrel burst within the Ammo Cache forums, part of the General Category category; I have a Ruger LCP that when purchased I was told it had been in for the recall. In fact it has the diamond on ...

Thread: CAUTION: Magtech +P .Guardian Gold 380 Ammo - LCP Barrel burst

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  1. #1 CAUTION: Magtech +P .Guardian Gold 380 Ammo - LCP Barrel burst 
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    I have a Ruger LCP that when purchased I was told it had been in for the recall. In fact it has the diamond on the slot indicating such. However, I have fired maybe ten rounds through it. On the 11th the barrel burst shattering the gun and damn near my finger. What gives? Has anyone else had this problem. The ammo was Magtech Guardian gold 380 AUTO+P 85GR JHP recommended by the dealer.

    Of course it happened on the weekend and I have not spoken to Ruger as of yet.
     

  2. #2 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
    Full Member jwardiii's Avatar
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    Well, this ain't good. In any firearm. Sounds like either a bullet stuck in the barrel, which you should have noticed on the shot, and the next one sent things south, or you touched off an overpressure load, which rarely happens with factory ammunition. More info for the tech guys please. Glad you survived that surprise intact!
    T
    There ain't many problems a man can't fix with 700 dollars and a .30-06.
     

  3. #3 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
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    my bet a squib round..
    "JUST SHOOT IT LIKE U STOLE IT"!!
     

  4. #4 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
    Super Member HowardCohodas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbotes
    On the 11th the barrel burst shattering the gun and damn near my finger. What gives? Has anyone else had this problem.
    Pictures would help those of us who have never experienced this.
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense
     

  5. #5 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
    Super Member kraigster414's Avatar
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    For starters get the lot number of the ammo off the box AND TAKE A PHOTO. Thankfully, you were not injured seriously. I would call Magtech first thing tomorrow with the lot number and see what they say. WE NEED TO SEE PHOTOS.

    For those reading, until this is sorted out: DO NOT FIRE THIS AMMO IN YOUR LCP. Keep in mind there are no SAAMI standards for +P .380 ammo. The maximum SAAMI pressure for standard .380 is 21,500 psi pressure so I'd know what the Magtech puts out. It could be a bad lot or it's more than the LCP can handle although there have been no reports of problems shooting Buffalo Bore +P. Not sure what Ruger's take is going to be on this as they don't sanction the use of +P ammo in the LCP. If it was a squib load more than likely you would have heard a "piff" sound (no powder/bad powder or or poorly mixed powder). If the bullet had lodged in the barrel as a result of being a squib, the next round would have caused the kaboom. It could have been a squib, it could have been a too-high pressure round, who knows.

    FOLKS FOR THE TIME BEING DO NOT FIRE MAGTECH +P AMMO IN YOUR LCP UNTIL THIS GETS SORTED OUT.

    This is the ammo that the OP used that resulted in a kaboom (as yet cause unknown):

    http://www.magtechammunition.com/sto...details470.php
    "Life is too short to smoke cheap cigars."
     

  6. #6 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
    Super Member Sassi's Avatar
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    Is there really such a thing as "plus P" 380 ACP ammo? I know that some companies claim this in their advertising, but really is there such a thing for the 380 ACP? If the certified SAAMI pressure for 380 ACP ammo is 21,500 PSI, can any ammo manufacturer legally be held accountable by law if they exceed those limits? Some people and some advertising seem to infer that "HOT"380 ACP ammmo is equal to 38 Special ammo. Does not 38 Special ammo carry a higher PSI value? I have always wondered about this. Does anyone know the answers?
     

  7. #7 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
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    From SportsmanGuide.com:

    MAGTECH® GUARDIAN GOLD™ - BOX of 20

    65591 .380 Auto + P JHP 85 1,082 221
    71505 .38 Spec. + P JHP 125 1,017 287
    65594 9 mm Luger + P JHP 115 1,246 397
    65592 .40 S & W JHP 155 1,205 500
    65593 .45 Auto + P JHP 185 1,148 540

     

  8. #8 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaSon
    From SportsmanGuide.com:

    MAGTECH® GUARDIAN GOLD™ - BOX of 20

    65591 .380 Auto + P JHP 85 1,082 221
    71505 .38 Spec. + P JHP 125 1,017 287
    65594 9 mm Luger + P JHP 115 1,246 397
    65592 .40 S & W JHP 155 1,205 500
    65593 .45 Auto + P JHP 185 1,148 540

    corbon 90 grain 380 is rated at 1050 fps and 220 Ft.#. they don't call it +P. Guess maybe they should if magtech is doing it..
    "JUST SHOOT IT LIKE U STOLE IT"!!
     

  9. #9 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
    Super Member HowardCohodas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaSon
    From SportsmanGuide.com:

    MAGTECH® GUARDIAN GOLD™ - BOX of 20

    65591 .380 Auto + P JHP 85 1,082 221
    71505 .38 Spec. + P JHP 125 1,017 287
    65594 9 mm Luger + P JHP 115 1,246 397
    65592 .40 S & W JHP 155 1,205 500
    65593 .45 Auto + P JHP 185 1,148 540
    Quote Originally Posted by jocko
    corbon 90 grain 380 is rated at 1050 fps and 220 Ft.#. they don't call it +P. Guess maybe they should if magtech is doing it..
    All you have succeeded in convincing me about +P is that without a specification, you can call anything you want +P. Marketing, rather than engineering gets quoted in tables such as you show.

    Without a specification, the designation +P could mean the power profile generated is capable of being handled by a given firearm, or not. Without a specification, how can a manufacturer of a firearm guarantee that +P can be used?

    Without understanding the purpose of a specification, most of this thread is deteriorating into a meaningless discussion. The claims as we know them are: Ammo with a +P designation was used in an LCP when the barrel failed. It is these claims that need to be the focus, not the marketing claims of ammunition manufacturers. Learning the power profile of this ammunition and comparing it with the capability of the LCP is the issue.

    The sole reason for even using the +P designation in the caution that was issued is to identify the product.
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense
     

  10. #10 Re: LCP Barrel burst 
    Super Member kraigster414's Avatar
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    I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves here. Let's give the dust some time to settle.

    For starters, MV and pressure are not intertwined. You can have two different factory round bullets (same weight) leaving the barrel at the same speed with different pressure characteristics. Pressure is a factor of the choice of powder (slower burning powders are more "forgiving" all things being equal), amount of powder, amount of crimp, diameter of the bullet, seating depth, even the choice of primer. An extra grain or two of Bullseye for example could cause a dangerous pressure spike, depending on the caliber and with the tiny .380 there is not a large margin for error. Then there is always the possibility of a bad lot of ammunition (that's why I asked him for the lot number) - bad powder, incorrect charge, contamination, poorly mixed etc all these things can happen. Reloaders are all too familiar with the factors that can make a difference between a safe round and one that is going to create problems. Going back to Bullseye, the difference beween the suggested starting load (95 grain bullet) and the maximum load is only .3 grains. That shows you how little it takes to experience potentially dangerous pressures (ref: Speer Relaoding Manual #14). There is also the possibiilty that metal/stress fatigue (with the gun itself) contributed to the kaboom though I seriously doubt it but I just want to illustrate how may variables could be involved. Rather than speculate further, let's see what additional information surfaces. For starters, I'd like to see photos and the lot number has to be called in to Magtech.

    "Life is too short to smoke cheap cigars."
     

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